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Put another way

Let's say I've got a friend (I do!) and this particular friend wants to have sex with a mentally unstable (but not dangerous) woman in a committed relationship. He persuades her to do so, and she betrays her boyfriend to have sex with this friend. This friend has no intention of an ongoing relationship with the woman - he just wants sex, and tells her so all along.

Obviously she's morally (or ethically, if you prefer) culpable for betraying a trust. Is the friend who had sex with her morally or ethically culpable for a wrong act, and if so - what?

Comments

thelastmehina
Aug. 1st, 2008 11:50 pm (UTC)
Does this have anything to do with Brenda's pigs?
aghrivaine
Aug. 1st, 2008 11:51 pm (UTC)
It may or may not. :)
thelastmehina
Aug. 1st, 2008 11:55 pm (UTC)
I think the most egregiously unethical aspect of the situation was the having sex with a mentally unstable woman. How unstable are we talking about?

If he misled her about his intentions (telling her he cared about her and wanted a relationship when he very much did not), then he's culpable for that. If he was honest about his intentions and desires with her, and if she made this decision freely... like I told yags, it's definitely shady but I hesitate to call it wrong. Of course, there are certain aspects in this scenario that are not present in the pigs scenario - notably, honesty about intentions and sleeping with someone who is mentally unstable.
aghrivaine
Aug. 1st, 2008 11:57 pm (UTC)
Assume her instability is nuttiness, and not the kind that requires a helmet. Further, that he is perfectly forthright about his intention to only have sex with her, and want or accept no further attachment.
thelastmehina
Aug. 2nd, 2008 12:00 am (UTC)
If I am simply an eccentric individual, and not someone who needs therapy or medication (i.e., a competent adult), and I choose to betray a previous commitment to fuck someone who has made it clear that all he wants from me is sex... the responsibility is mostly mine.

That being said, something about the whole scenario bothered me, and I just now was able to put it into words. The man with whom she cheated actively facilitated and encouraged deception and betrayal. And that's what's unethical on his part.
aghrivaine
Aug. 2nd, 2008 12:02 am (UTC)
(I've never said the woman doing the cheating isn't the one to whom the majority of blame attaches. Only that she's not along in doing wrong.)
(no subject) - thelastmehina - Aug. 2nd, 2008 12:03 am (UTC) - Expand
yagathai
Aug. 2nd, 2008 12:04 am (UTC)
Hm. Assume the man with whom she cheated knows nothing of deception or betrayal. I mean, for all he knows she's telling the boyfriend. Or maybe she isn't. The point is, it doesn't matter to him either way.

So in this case indifference is wrong?
(no subject) - aghrivaine - Aug. 2nd, 2008 12:05 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - yagathai - Aug. 2nd, 2008 12:13 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - aghrivaine - Aug. 2nd, 2008 12:13 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - aghrivaine - Aug. 2nd, 2008 12:14 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thelastmehina - Aug. 2nd, 2008 12:06 am (UTC) - Expand
yagathai
Aug. 1st, 2008 11:55 pm (UTC)
Perhaps. Let's just say both scenarios sprang from the same font -- what is the penumbra of ethical liability for an unethical act?
thelastmehina
Aug. 1st, 2008 11:57 pm (UTC)
Thinking about it... I certainly wouldn't be comfortable around someone who was that deceptive to get what they wanted.

Your analogy with the pigs, I think, doesn't hold up unless you want to treat sex as a commodity.
aghrivaine
Aug. 2nd, 2008 12:00 am (UTC)
Even then, pigs or sex - my point is, soliciting a moral wrong is in and of itself a moral wrong, even if the other actor is willing. If you pay someone to harm another, you are culpable.

In this case he's persuading a woman to harm another for his own sexual gratification.
thelastmehina
Aug. 2nd, 2008 12:00 am (UTC)
See above :)
thealiwoman
Aug. 2nd, 2008 12:15 am (UTC)
Agreed. Seeking to create a situation in which other parties commit unethical acts is as unethical as the acts perpatrated by the other parties. Of course, your wording is much less verbose than my own:).
yagathai
Aug. 2nd, 2008 12:15 am (UTC)
I wasn't really putting the analogy together by equating sex to piglets, so much as in both circumstances there was a deal, an understanding, and a betrayal. Dave said that the situations weren't really equivalent. I was saying that they were, or at least could be.
thelastmehina
Aug. 2nd, 2008 12:19 am (UTC)
Except that I think Brenda the Butcher is far more emotionally involved with her husband than with the guy who sells her the pigs.
yagathai
Aug. 2nd, 2008 12:25 am (UTC)
Point.
(no subject) - glamour_junkie - Aug. 2nd, 2008 01:50 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - yagathai - Aug. 2nd, 2008 01:56 am (UTC) - Expand

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