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Put another way

Let's say I've got a friend (I do!) and this particular friend wants to have sex with a mentally unstable (but not dangerous) woman in a committed relationship. He persuades her to do so, and she betrays her boyfriend to have sex with this friend. This friend has no intention of an ongoing relationship with the woman - he just wants sex, and tells her so all along.

Obviously she's morally (or ethically, if you prefer) culpable for betraying a trust. Is the friend who had sex with her morally or ethically culpable for a wrong act, and if so - what?

Comments

( 79 comments — Leave a comment )
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yagathai
Aug. 1st, 2008 11:48 pm (UTC)
I bet you have at least two friends!
aghrivaine
Aug. 1st, 2008 11:48 pm (UTC)
Also true!
(no subject) - yagathai - Aug. 1st, 2008 11:53 pm (UTC) - Expand
pookahchu
Aug. 1st, 2008 11:50 pm (UTC)
if he purposely set out to manipulate her to get what he wanted, knowing that it would not be good for her - then yes.
thelastmehina
Aug. 1st, 2008 11:50 pm (UTC)
Does this have anything to do with Brenda's pigs?
aghrivaine
Aug. 1st, 2008 11:51 pm (UTC)
It may or may not. :)
(no subject) - thelastmehina - Aug. 1st, 2008 11:55 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - aghrivaine - Aug. 1st, 2008 11:57 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thelastmehina - Aug. 2nd, 2008 12:00 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - aghrivaine - Aug. 2nd, 2008 12:02 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thelastmehina - Aug. 2nd, 2008 12:03 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - yagathai - Aug. 2nd, 2008 12:04 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - aghrivaine - Aug. 2nd, 2008 12:05 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - yagathai - Aug. 2nd, 2008 12:13 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - aghrivaine - Aug. 2nd, 2008 12:13 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - aghrivaine - Aug. 2nd, 2008 12:14 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thelastmehina - Aug. 2nd, 2008 12:06 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - yagathai - Aug. 1st, 2008 11:55 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thelastmehina - Aug. 1st, 2008 11:57 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - aghrivaine - Aug. 2nd, 2008 12:00 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thelastmehina - Aug. 2nd, 2008 12:00 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thealiwoman - Aug. 2nd, 2008 12:15 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - yagathai - Aug. 2nd, 2008 12:15 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thelastmehina - Aug. 2nd, 2008 12:19 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - yagathai - Aug. 2nd, 2008 12:25 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - glamour_junkie - Aug. 2nd, 2008 01:50 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - yagathai - Aug. 2nd, 2008 01:56 am (UTC) - Expand
toast3r
Aug. 1st, 2008 11:53 pm (UTC)
In summary, he is ethically culpable because
Instead of snatching her heart, he hearted her snatch.
aghrivaine
Aug. 1st, 2008 11:57 pm (UTC)
Re: In summary, he is ethically culpable because
Oh my god!
eac
Aug. 2nd, 2008 12:04 am (UTC)
He's an accomplice in hurting her boyfriend. That's wrong.
arya
Aug. 2nd, 2008 12:26 am (UTC)
IMO, the guy is only morally culpable if he's friends with the girl's boyfriend. If so, then he has a responsibility not to betray his friend's trust. If they don't even know each other, then there's no such responsibility.

It's the same as finding a hundred dollar bill lying in the road. You're SUPPOSED to pick it up and put it in your pocket. You're not morally obligated to run around and ask everyone "Hey, did you misplace a hundred bucks?"
eac
Aug. 2nd, 2008 01:04 am (UTC)
See, I actually think you're morally obligated to ask people.
(no subject) - arya - Aug. 2nd, 2008 01:22 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - aghrivaine - Aug. 2nd, 2008 04:31 pm (UTC) - Expand
creepingivy
Aug. 2nd, 2008 12:28 am (UTC)
If the friend knew that someone else had sexual primacy and she had an agreement of fidelity with her, then he's crap bag for participating in violating that agreement. If he didn't know and she didn't tell, then its not his fault he unknowingly violated an agreement. But y'know, I guess I don't think I view cheating as the worst thing to ever happen ever in life or even a relationship. That's not to say I'm a cheater or advocate misconduct but sounds to me that if agreements are going to be violated, there's other issues at work here that go beyond cheating. The cheating is just the manifest.
joemorf
Aug. 2nd, 2008 12:34 am (UTC)
"Put another way" ... wait, what was the first way. Did I miss it?

~j
(no subject) - joemorf - Aug. 2nd, 2008 01:21 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - yagathai - Aug. 2nd, 2008 01:29 am (UTC) - Expand
arya
Aug. 2nd, 2008 12:37 am (UTC)
http://www.winterfell.com/pork.jpg When did LJ disable img tags?

Edited at 2008-08-02 12:38 am (UTC)
yagathai
Aug. 2nd, 2008 01:11 am (UTC)
I get a 403 not authorized.
(no subject) - arya - Aug. 2nd, 2008 01:21 am (UTC) - Expand
wickedthought
Aug. 2nd, 2008 12:37 am (UTC)
I have a better question: Why is this person your friend?

Sorry, I like to cut to the chase like that.
yagathai
Aug. 2nd, 2008 01:27 am (UTC)
Because Dave likes awful things? Because he can't bear to be separated from my radiant manly aura? Because I'll still talk to him after eight years?

This whole discussion sprang out of a discussion that he and I were having about a real-life situation that bears about as much resemblance to Dave's hypothetical as The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen comic does with the abortion of a film that it spawned, but the heart of his version of the issue -- and mine -- is the question of whether or not it's wrong to be the "other man" (or woman, though I'd personally have real trouble being the other woman).

My contention that as long as 1) you're honest about your intentions and in your methods, 2) you're not friends with the cuckoldee and 3) you don't have any reason to think that your partner-in-lust is incapable of making adult decisions, you're not ethically culpable for the fact that she may or may not be betraying her partner's trust. You, after all, are not betraying anyone -- you're acting with scrupulous honesty towards all parties with whom you are interacting.

Dave's contention is that by being complicit in her unethical act, you yourself are committing an unethical act.

Edited at 2008-08-02 01:28 am (UTC)
(no subject) - joemorf - Aug. 2nd, 2008 01:32 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - yagathai - Aug. 2nd, 2008 01:41 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thealiwoman - Aug. 2nd, 2008 02:33 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - joemorf - Aug. 2nd, 2008 06:14 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - eac - Aug. 2nd, 2008 02:48 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thealiwoman - Aug. 2nd, 2008 02:35 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - joemorf - Aug. 2nd, 2008 05:45 am (UTC) - Expand
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(no subject) - aghrivaine - Aug. 2nd, 2008 05:56 pm (UTC) - Expand
nephandi
Aug. 2nd, 2008 05:16 pm (UTC)
I'd say it's immoral (and possibly illegal) if his exploitation of her mental instability vitiated consent. It's immoral if he actively participates in the deception, or if the deceived boyfriend was his friend, or if his intention was to hurt the deceived boyfriend. Otherwise, it's probably not immoral; if you want to have sex with someone, you are not obligated to the expectations of sexual exclusivity held by her (unmarried) partners.
aghrivaine
Aug. 2nd, 2008 05:57 pm (UTC)
Interesting. So - encouraging someone to commit an immoral act is not, in and of itself, immoral?
(no subject) - nephandi - Aug. 2nd, 2008 07:05 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - daogre - Aug. 2nd, 2008 10:56 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - nephandi - Aug. 3rd, 2008 01:36 am (UTC) - Expand
maeris
Aug. 2nd, 2008 11:25 pm (UTC)
I had a professor in college that told me that his morals/ethics were measured by his ability (or inability) to tell his mother what actions he had taken. That is, if he would tell his mother what he had done, it was moral/ethical. If he wouldn't tell her, then it was immoral/ethical. I certainly don't measure my ethics this way, and I say the class was split nearly in half.

So, what if the girl would never tell her mother she'd cheated on her boyfriend, but the guy would have no problem telling his mom that he encouraged a girl to cheat on her boyfriend? Then she's being unethical and he isn't. Or what if she would have no problem telling her mother and he would never tell his mom this? Then he's the unethical one, and his morals stand.

Of course this is based on a professor's view of morality, with which I'm sure not everyone here would agree. So if we're all defining ethics differently, how can be possibly determine if his actions were right or wrong?

thealiwoman
Aug. 3rd, 2008 03:26 am (UTC)
This is great! Now I don't have to take that Ethics class in school; you do give credit, right?
mikelehqpics
Aug. 3rd, 2008 11:35 am (UTC)
right and wrong
They are both wrong and should at least blog about it.
seanmoon
Aug. 4th, 2008 03:17 pm (UTC)
I think that knowingly participating in an unethical act is unethical. Her action, betraying a trust, is unethical. His action, helping her betray a trust, makes him an unethical accomplice. The fact that he's not lying to her about the relationships prospects doesn't make him any less of a scumbag. Being open about your flaws doesn't make them less flaw-y.

That's without getting into the whole thing about taking advantage of someone who's mentally unstable.
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( 79 comments — Leave a comment )