Rum, Sodomy, and the Lash: Pick Two ([info]aghrivaine) wrote,
@ 2008-03-08 10:31:00
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Current mood: infuriated

Bush Vetoes Law Against Torture
This is simply an outrage, an affront on decency and American honor.

I've been scandalized by this government so often it's become wearying. But to call a torture technique that is explicity illegal, for which American servicemen have been tried and convicted, for which foreign soldiers have been convicted of war crimes when it is used on Americans, "one of the most valuable tools in the war on terror," is absurd. It's shocking. It's beyond bearing, beyond conscience or credibility.

I am deeply, deeply ashamed of the government my countrymen elected - deeply ashamed of the passivity in the face of outright, clear and untrammeled evil that the Democrats have shown. This is a new low in American politics. I hope every one of the Bush administration is tried for war crimes when they are finally removed from office.

Maybe the worst part is that it's entirely unnecessary; the "interrogation techniques" which are permissable are more than adequate to produce results, and indeed - more reliable. I can't believe, I just can't believe that it's come to pass that our government is defending the practice of torture. And all for a war on an emotional state - and unwinnable war with no limit or particular enemy. If this isn't chilling to any American of good conscience, the world is far more barbaric than I'd let myself believe.

Shame on us - every one of us; for allowing it, defending it, or simply doing nothing to stop evil.



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[info]thelastmehina
2008-03-08 06:39 pm UTC (link)
This is why I hope for an Obama victory this fall.

The Republicans seem incapable of recognizing other people as actual human beings. I do hope Bush ends up getting arrested for war crimes after he leaves office.

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[info]aghrivaine
2008-03-08 07:06 pm UTC (link)
Where's Captain America when we need him? I tell you what - he comes back (and they always come back) he's gonna be PISSED.

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[info]thelastmehina
2008-03-08 07:10 pm UTC (link)
I'm tempted to expatriate to Italy.

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[info]eefster
2008-03-08 07:43 pm UTC (link)
It's things like this that make Italy look good, despite not even technically *having* a government at the moment over here. (Parliament was dissolved at the start of February, after the PM stepped down -- he lost a vote of confidence because his coalition fell apart -- and elections will be held in mid-April.)

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[info]aghrivaine
2008-03-08 07:50 pm UTC (link)
Um, Italy? With their popularly elected extreme-right wing government?

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[info]thelastmehina
2008-03-08 08:50 pm UTC (link)
France, then. Somewhere Not Here.

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[info]chadu
2008-03-08 08:06 pm UTC (link)
Hear, hear!

Steve Rogers woukd punch MANY people (in gummint) in the face.

cu

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[info]arya
2008-03-08 06:55 pm UTC (link)
I hope every one of the Bush administration is tried for war crimes when they are finally removed from office.

First, Congress will have to overturn the legislation Bush pushed through that retroactively pardons himself and his cronies for everything they've done.

Edited at 2008-03-08 06:55 pm UTC

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[info]aghrivaine
2008-03-08 07:05 pm UTC (link)
Hey, if that's the first step, that's the first step. The probability? Very low - it's not like the Democrats have even TRIED to curb Bush's worst excesses. They just show their soft white underbellies and rubberstamp anything he wants.

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[info]arya
2008-03-08 07:08 pm UTC (link)
Now you understand my vehement support of the 2nd Amendment. Jefferson foresaw shit like this happening and wanted to leave us recourse to overthrowing a corrupt, unConstitutional government, to replace it with something less resembling a sack of snakes.

Only a pipe dream, but a comforting and reassuring one. Like a security blanket.

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[info]aghrivaine
2008-03-08 07:49 pm UTC (link)
I don't buy that individual ownership of firearms would do anything to remove this, or any future government. What's a shot-gun against an Abrams?

Fortunately, the means for reform were also foreseen by Jefferson and his compadres, and built into the system. Let us hope, sincerely, that it isn't too late.

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[info]arya
2008-03-08 07:52 pm UTC (link)
Well, in the past, when other governments have become tyrranical despots, they've started off by disarming the public first.

Maybe I'm just gonna move to Switzerland. (Even if their public health care pisses me off.)

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[info]aghrivaine
2008-03-08 07:53 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, I can see why living somewhere with good healthcare would be infuriating...

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[info]arya
2008-03-08 07:55 pm UTC (link)
It's all about choice, man. And I want to have the freedom to pay less taxes and get fewer social benefits, goddamnit. I'm entitled. I'm American.

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[info]forthright
2008-03-08 07:16 pm UTC (link)
You know, try as hard as I might, and I follow your country's politics for as long as I can stomach it, but I don't think I'll really ever *get* how so many Americans can put up with this sort of crap.

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[info]thelastmehina
2008-03-08 07:35 pm UTC (link)
Laziness, plus a shit-tastic educational system that leaves most people it produces with an inability to reason or think critically, and a system that most often plays on fear. And our leaders are incredibly egotistical, being raised with the belief that the only 'real' people are Christians, and America can never do any wrong.

Many Americans are decent, hard-working people, but there are enough of the whackjobs and wingnuts to have run amok.

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[info]aghrivaine
2008-03-08 07:52 pm UTC (link)
The thing is, I can't believe that so significant a percent of the population are really whackjobs and wing-nuts.

I think instead, our leaders are praying on a very human, completely ordinary fallibility - the failure of empathy in the face of fear of the "other". Many psychological experiments show how easy it is to get people to be complicit or even participatory in outright evil; it's there in everyone. That's why it's so important that American leaders be ethical, upright and honorable.

And that's why it's SO important that we roust these rascals out. Because they are none of those things.

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[info]forthright
2008-03-08 09:12 pm UTC (link)
It's so odd. One of the 'classic' differences that every Canadian schoolchild learns about between us and Americans is that whereas you folks have 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness', we have enshrined 'peace, order, and good government' as our ideals. And yet I could make the case easily that despite our socialized healthcare, etc., Canadians are vastly more libertarian on the issues you're talking about (civil liberties, justification of torture, etc.), even though we have wingnuts aplenty.

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[info]aghrivaine
2008-03-08 09:28 pm UTC (link)
I can only say that I hope that our current government is an aberration, and that American ideals tend towards maximum possible individual freedom, responsible government, honorable use of force, and the rule of law.

Yes, current policies have either eroded or entirely flung down those things - but I believe that the American spirit tends towards a finer policy, and that we will restore that which has been sullied.

And then we can go back to making fun of our Northern cousins for their intrusive government. :)

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